Deadliest attack in Afghanistan since 2001

[Rob]

This is of particular interest to me, since the presence of Canadian troops in Afghanistan has become a particularly hot topic in Canadian politics as of late. I don't know how it looks from outside Canada, but as our newsmedia reports it, our troops are pulling most of the weight in the Kandahar region where the Taliban is making its comeback.

Hence why I thought today's news was rather interesting, I wonder how long it'll take before someone hijacks this for political ends on Parliament Hill...


'Deadliest' attack in Afghanistan

At least 80 people have been killed in a suicide bombing outside the Afghan city of Kandahar - in what appears to be the deadliest attack since 2001.
The massive blast hit a crowd of people watching a dog-fighting contest.

"This suicide attack was the work of the Taleban," said Governor Assadullah Khalid, adding the death toll may rise.

Southern Afghanistan is a Taleban stronghold and last week the Kandahar governor himself was the target of an attempt on his life.

The Taleban have not claimed responsibility for the blast, but it bears all their hallmarks, says the BBC's Jon Brain in the Afghan capital.

Among those killed was Abdul Hakim, a local police chief fiercely opposed to the Taleban who is thought to have been the target of the attack.

Body parts

Excitement was mounting among the 500-strong, male-only crowd when the huge blast struck.

Dog-fighting competitions, which were banned under the Taleban regime, are a popular pastime in Afghanistan.

"Fighting had just started between two dogs," said one spectator, Abdul Karim.

"Suddenly I heard a huge explosion next to a police vehicle. Then I saw lots of people dead and wounded.

"I counted over 40 people on the ground dead," Mr Karim, 53, told the AFP news agency.

Twisted car and bicycle parts littered the ground as shawls and shoes lay scattered among the bodies of the dead and wounded.

Injured spectators staggered through the carnage searching for relatives.

Scores of wounded were packed into civilian cars and rushed to hospitals in the city centre, some 15km (nine miles) away.

Taleban influence

Aside from Abdul Hakim, several other policemen were reported to be among the victims of Sunday's blast.

The Taleban claim to have influence across most of the country and have extended their area of control from their traditional heartland in the south.

They have a significant presence around Kandahar from where they carry out suicide attacks and roadside bomb blasts.

The militants are even able to operate freely in Wardak province, neighbouring the capital Kabul.

Last year, violence in Afghanistan reached its highest levels since the Taleban were forced from power in 2001, analysts say.


edit; Linky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7249138.stm)

[Ginger Lord]

I don't know how it looks from outside Canada, but as our newsmedia reports it, our troops are pulling most of the weight in the Kandahar region where the Taliban is making its comeback.

Well as our media reports our troops are pulling most of the weight in the Sangin region where the Taliban is making its comeback.

:|

[Cheeto]

Maybe I'm just mean and heartless and don't understand the different culture but...I can't find it within me to be broken up by a bunch of people fighting dogs for fun/profit getting hurt. Although I'm sure there were quite a few people there who were injured who had nothing to do with it.

[Penguin]

This is of particular interest to me, since the presence of Canadian troops in Afghanistan has become a particularly hot topic in Canadian politics as of late. I don't know how it looks from outside Canada, but as our newsmedia reports it, our troops are pulling most of the weight in the Kandahar region where the Taliban is making its comeback.

Well as our media reports our troops are pulling most of the weight in the Sangin region where the Taliban is making its comeback.

:|

Our media doesn't tell us about Afghanistan anymore. :shifty:

But seriously, from what I've heard it's basically the US, UK and Canada are collectively pulling all the weight while the Taliban has been supposedly making a comeback since 2002, and other NATO allies like Germany stay bottled up in base.

[Invig]

Who ever is on the Paki border is the one thats gonna be pulling the most weight. I know the U.S. is there but dont know about anyone else

[TylerDurden]

of course the tali ban is making a "come back". Anyone who lives in that country might as well be called tali ban, because no one wants America, Canada, or any damn part of the UK there, and anyone who opposes or detests an army will be looked as a terrorist. Tali Ban my ass please. How can people be so stupid and not realize that we are forcing these people to choose to either live in a society formed by people NOT of that country, OR Die and have your name be associated with the Tali Ban, and Terrorist organizations, JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT THE POSSIBILITY'S OF THINGS LIKE MC DONALD'S, AND RADIO SHACK IN YOUR VILLAGE.

im sure the only reason Canada is over there is because they are on the same Military high as America. The country of America, Canada, and others, make money by deploying troops, and using ammo. Whats Canada's little saying for their "Army" type units ? 3 Canadian soldiers equal one marine ? Fuck Your Media !

[Rob]

Actually, contrary to the Iraq situation, most of the reports coming out of Afghanistan seem to indicate that they're appreciative of the presence of NATO soldiers. The government sucks and is more than a little powerless, but I gather those people rather disliked the Taliban government.

But GW had to run off half-cocked into Iraq and leave Afghanistan unfinished, so the Taliban and other dissident groups are aligning to resist the occupation.

Incidentally, I find this particularly offensive:

im sure the only reason Canada is over there is because they are on the same Military high as America. The country of America, Canada, and others, make money by deploying troops, and using ammo
War is not a moneymaker, it's an expense. We went along out of a sense of duty, obligation, and it simply being the right thing to do--not some cowboy adventure. And there's certainly no "military high," our presence over there is increasingly unpopular domestically, and our troops will be fully withdrawn by 2011.

[TylerDurden]

Lies stacked on top of lies.

Whens the last time you were in Iraq ? HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE HAPPY ABOUT SOLDIERS RUNNING UP IN THEIR HOUSES LIKE AMERICAN COPS !

WAR does make money, im sorry but you don't even know about things like grenada, do you ? I BET you have no idea about HALF of the things America has and does do, since the 60's. How FUCKED UP we are and will always be. With this in mind, how can ANYONE take presidential elections seriously ?

As for taking offense ? im offended that you don't even know about America going into 3rd world country's, training poor ass village people how to KILL, and then setting them loose to wipe out VOTING villages. Yeah, VOTE....ING.... DEAD... ALL so U.S backed leaders can step into office.

You don't know about America and how we lend money to other country's, then FUCK THEM UP when they don't pay on time.

im sure you have NO idea how America was founded either. Im sure you have no idea what the federal reserve has to do with America, or even what pirates have to do with the development of the united states.

speaking for people like John Lennon, im offended by what you don't know, when it comes to this country I live in.

[Rob]

I was talking about my country, but I happen to know a whole hell of a lot more about yours than most people living in it do. That's not speaking to the staggering ignorance of a great many people, that would be because I chose to devote my education to my most keen interest: history.

[TylerDurden]

Thats awesome, because America likes to erase History. Change it too.

[TylerDurden]

http://wichita.craigslist.org/pol/552957338.html

If you know so much about America, then you'd know about the Federal Reserve, and what influence they have on the U.S.

Bush didn't run out of Iraq, nor did he run in.

Canada doing good deeds for Iraq ? Please, they ain't doing shit. I can see it now, Canadian troops WALKING around. Thats it. As long as they are in Iraq, getting AT LEAST some field training, and practicing shooting rounds, then all is good, because money IS being made. Evolution of war doesn't allow for money to be spent, thats old school, and out of date. If corporations can do it, then im pretty sure a military can to. Make money off of being alive basically, that is.

[Penguin]

If corporations can do it, then im pretty sure a military can to. Make money off of being alive basically, that is.
That's not war, that's welfare. :D

I'll be here all night folks. Tip your waitress.

[TylerDurden]

you know what ? its not war, you're right, its a product that can be sold in stores. what could there still possibly be left to fight for these days ? Nothing, other then the problems created by the same people who first created the solutions to the problems.

[Rob]

Canada doing good deeds for Iraq ? Please, they ain't doing shit
Right you are. Because we're not in Iraq.

Check in with reality before posting next time.

[TylerDurden]

dude thats bull shit ! check in with reality ?

it doesn't matter where they are, Iraq, Afghanistan, they have no business there, they have no use there, and by all means, they are more then likely there for building their Military, OR they owe America a favor.

Check in with reality ? FUCK. THAT.

How about check in with the facts ! What you hear, read, and see from the media, has got you all backwards, and because you are not able to agree, or see another point, doesn't mean you need to attack myself in the sense that i don't know what im talking about.

Believe me when i say, War makes money, and if thats not the truth, then look at WWII. NUFF` SAID. Thank You.

[TylerDurden]

The Real Reasons Canada is in Afghanistan

Simply stated, the real reasons we are fighting in Afghanistan are for:

* Power
* Money
* Resource Control
* Integration into the Global Economic System

Power

In his September 2006 article “Afghanistan: The Other Lost War” Stephen Lendman correctly stated:


"The US war on Afghanistan was also planned well in advance (at least a year or more) of the 9/11 attack that provided the claimed justification for it. It was part of the US strategic plan to control the vast oil and gas resources of Central Asia that former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski under President Carter explained the importance of in his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard. In it he referred to Eurasia as the 'center of world power extending from Germany and Poland in the East through Russia and China to the Pacific and including the Middle East and Indian subcontinent.' By dominating this region including Afghanistan with its strategic location, the US would assure it had access to and controlled the vast energy resources there."

Canada's assistance in prosecuting this war of empire to project the American hegemon over the entire planet is abhorrent to most Canadians. And make no mistake about it the United States is running an empire with bases in over 132 countries across the planet.

Money

As so eloqently stated by General Smedley Butler:

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

And indeed the military industrial complex has been reaping huge profits from prosecuting the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. This includes not only American companies but Canadian companies such as General Dynamics Canada, SNC Lavalin group Inc., Bell Helicopter, Bombardier, CAE, Canadian Commercial Corporation, Atlantis Systems International, and many others.

Our brave soldiers are fighting and dying for the profit of these Canadian corporations and countless other corporate interests across the planet.

Also, after a country has been bombed extensively, its infrastructure must be rebuilt once again resulting in an opportunity for extraordinary profits for the corporations.

Resource Control

With control of the vast resources of Central Asia at stake as clearly stated by Zbigniew Brzezinski in his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard, and Afghanistan's strategic location for the transportation of those resources to market, it was necessary to control Afghanistan in anticipation of future construction of pipelines from Central Asia through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea.

Afghanistan itself, according to Soviet estimates from the late 1970s, has proven and probable oil reserves of 95 million barrels along with substantial natural gas resources estimated at 5 trillion cubic ft.

Furthermore, by providing troops in Afghanistan, we are also aiding the US in its prosecution of its illegal war for oil initiated by the WMD lie in Iraq.

Integration into the Global Economic System

An often overlooked and little understood reason for our involvement in Afghanistan, and anticipated involvement in other wars throughout the world, is the establishment of a single world system of financial control in the hands of private international financial interests.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds' central banks which were themselves private corporations."

- Professor Carroll Quigley from his book Tragedy and Hope 1966

This system of financial control has been successfully established in the Western countries and propagated relentlessly through the IMF and World Bank and their structural agreements to nations throughout the world through excessive debt, coercion, threats, corruption, overthrow of elected goverments, and outright war. This represents a long standing agenda by the elite to control every nation on the planet so they might control their resources, successfully extract the wealth of those nations for their own benefit, and dominate their political and economic systems.

What we see in reality are countries that have refused to comply with this agenda being labeled as rogue nations and as such have to be dealt with militarily in order to bring them under the same system of control. Nations who are independent of this system of control simply cannot be tolerated and must therefore be eliminated.

Conclusion

Why Canada would want to continue its involvement in a war that is predicated on a false flag terrorist event; that has contaminated the region with depleted uranium for generations to come; that has condemned its soldiers to slow painful deaths; that is illegal under international law; that has nothing to do with the war on terror, democracy or women's rights; and is really about the projection of power, corporate profits, resource control and establishment of a global system of financial control is simply incomprehensible.

Clearly, Canada should withdraw all military personnel except a minimal force to protect aid workers and diplomats. To do otherwise, is an affront to our ethics and traditions as a people.

If you truly care about our troops and Canada's international reputation, you will get us out of this fraudulent war, allow the people of Afghanistan to determine their own future, and provide financial and expert support to truly independent and democratic groups within the country in opposition to the warlords and druglords currently in power.

http://www.softsphereconsulting.com/gse ... istan.aspx (http://www.softsphereconsulting.com/gselzler/blog/CanadasRoleInAfghanistan.aspx)

The Taliban do not pose a threat to the existence of Canada. They're not about to invade. Nor are they developing weapons of mass destruction and missiles capable of reaching North America.

The Al-Qaeda elements sheltering behind the Taliban do not pose an existential threat to Canada either. They certainly provide moral and perhaps technical support to aspiring terrorists elsewhere. But if the threat were truly serious, Washington would not have shifted its focus to Iraq. Nor would General Musharraf be allowed to conclude deals with pro-Taliban militants along the border of Afghanistan, while denying NATO forces access to that region.

Clearly, we do have a national interest in containing Al-Qaeda. Yet even if that interest was worth 39 Canadian soldiers' lives, it's not clear that the counter-insurgency mission is making progress towards this goal. After five years of efforts by American, British and Canadian troops, southern Afghanistan has become significantly more dangerous.

Second, it's argued that the counter-insurgency mission is needed to restrict the production of opium. Illegal narcotics are certainly a concern. But despite the presence of Canadian troops, opium production has increased dramatically.

Third, it's argued that the counter-insurgency mission is needed to protect the Afghan people. But, again, are we actually achieving this goal? Today, the average life expectancy in Afghanistan is less than 45 years, and 1,600 mothers out of 100,000 die during childbirth (compared to six out of 100,000 in Canada). What's more, some of the most important posts in the Afghan government are held by former warlords. Some of them stand accused -- by international human rights organizations and other, elected members of the parliament -- of heinous crimes, and of siphoning off billions of dollars of foreign aid.

Fourth, it's argued that NATO's credibility is at stake. But if that's the case, why have so many NATO members refused to step up to the plate? There are 26 NATO countries, and Canada -- with our relatively small population and military -- has made the third-largest contribution to the counter-insurgency mission.

And how much does NATO's credibility matter? Fifteen years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, NATO is simply a collection of countries that may or may not choose to co-operate in any given situation. When the United States intervened in Afghanistan in 2001, it chose not to call on NATO for help.

Fifth, it's argued that Canada's credibility would suffer if we withdrew from the counter-insurgency mission. It's certainly true that, within NATO circles, we'd be expected to provide reasonable notice. And so we should. But does anyone regard France or Germany as less credible because they refused to deploy into southern Afghanistan? Does anyone regard Spain or Italy as less credible because they chose to withdraw from Iraq? As Senator Roméo Dallaire has explained, the biggest blow to Canada's credibility today is occurring elsewhere, as we allow a genocide to continue in Darfur.

Sixth, it's argued that Canada's credibility in Washington would suffer. This is a serious argument. But it's also the same argument that was advanced by those who thought Canada should join in the Vietnam War. It's the same argument that was advanced by those who thought Canada should join in the 2003 Iraq War. All of which goes to show that Canadians are better judges of the Canadian national interest than Americans. As long as we provide reasonable notice, Washington has no reason to complain.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/10/06/Afghanistan/



"WAR is a racket. It always has been."

x8BDv01EF4A

gqgGPw88T-s

[Penguin]

Check in with reality ? FUCK. THAT.

I don't care what the weed is telling you. You are not profound.

[TylerDurden]

ok, when i said "FUCK THAT" i was saying pretty much "thats bull shit, if you can be right so can i"

and as for your piece of shit remark about weed and myself being profound, let me tell you something.


First, ill start off by asking you this, have you read anything in this thread ? I bet you haven't, so how about you go back and read some shit, then ask questions.

Second, how can you take sides when you know nothing at all ? i bet you watch tv. i bet you wipe your ass with a news paper (meaning you read one) i bet you let everyone make decisions for you.

With this in mind, go suck an egg and come back and say something to me, other then some dumb bull shit.

[Penguin]

ok, when i said "FUCK THAT" i was saying pretty much "thats bull shit, if you can be right so can i"

Which is relativistic horse shit. Rob pointed out that, contrary to your semi-coherent ranting, the Canadians are not in Iraq. Saying OH DURRR BUHHH BUT THEY'RE IN AFGHANISTAN SAME DIFF RIGHT does not, in fact, make you correct.


and as for your piece of shit remark about weed and myself being profound, let me tell you something.

Hit a little too close to home?


First, ill start off by asking you this, have you read anything in this thread ?

Yes, I have. Have you? You seem to have this habit of spouting nonsense that fits in with your military-industrial complex run completely amok worldview and ignoring any factual contradiction, saying "Oh well I'm right anyway."


Second, how can you take sides when you know nothing at all ?
I'm not taking any sides. I merely pointed out that no, you are not correct just because you say you are, and that you sound like a pothead who thinks he's really profound when he's just spouting bullshit.


i bet you watch tv. i bet you wipe your ass with a news paper (meaning you read one) i bet you let everyone make decisions for you.

I bet you masturbate to lolicon. I bet you wipe your scat on the monitor (meaning you read tinfoil news sites). I bet you overheard some hippies at the art college and let them make decisions for you.


With this in mind, go suck an egg and come back and say something to me, other then some dumb bull shit.
You first, bucko.

[TylerDurden]

you're a flamer man, i can't believe you.

everything you wrote there pretty much sucks dude. what about my post ? i made one mistake and said Canada was in Iraq, and then posted things that supported me in where Canada really is.

You on the other hand, can't really answer any of my questions without talking about jerking off.

i stated facts, and have given points, its you who doesn't want to read them, or try to understand anything. all you want to do is say im a pot head, and that im right.

there are other sides out there, how can you only pick one ? Especially one thats given to you by the media ? I've taken classes in school that focus on the Media. So, where do you come in flaming ?

do you see me flame people like this ?

THEN, you decrease my rep and talk shit ? dude, you are the worst thing ever, why even. What makes you so right ? Tell me, i wanna know. How are you the smartest man alive ? i wanna know.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii81/jadedmarko/flamer.jpg

[TylerDurden]

all i ask is for you to be constructive in this thread. i really don't want to fight like this, its bull shit.

i take the time to research things, find things to post and so on. im going to work now, and when i come back, im sure you'll have some great stuff in here.

as for you decreasing my rep, im not going to do the same to you, i think thats weak. I wonder how old you are, and what kind of family you grew up in ?

[Cheeto]

At this point, I would like to point out the many happy uses of the 'ignore' list.

Well...only one use, but it's a really good one.

[Penguin]

I don't have the patience to wade through some Troofer's screed.


Why Canada would want to continue its involvement in a war that is predicated on a false flag terrorist event;

That burns up any credibility they might've had as far as I'm concerned.

[Invig]

Whens the last time you were in Iraq ? HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE HAPPY ABOUT SOLDIERS RUNNING UP IN THEIR HOUSES LIKE AMERICAN COPS.

When have you? I'm standing in it right fuckin now.
Heres the thing tyler. You carry yourself like an 8 year old. No one wants to listen to anything you have to say because everyone feels like part of their soul has died after reading your posts. You contribute nothing more then being the forum idiot. Not only do you destroy any attempts for intelligent debates, you make people more dumb after reading your posts. Thats why you have a negative reputation, because no one respects you. Please just go away.

[TylerDurden]

No, YOU'RE ! ha, no, not really, I'm just saying that.

So you know the most about my country ? Good, now someone can give some answers, finally . Like how all this crack got in the ghetto ! Or, who shot JFK !

Lets be frank here. You probably don't know as much as you think you do about why America is in Iraq. And you can't tell me that soldiers don't bust down doors and gather your people outside and search and interrogate them, one by one, looking for any clues to who or what opposes America. If you say thats a lie, then you are saying Fox news is a lie. Fox is where i saw the little program im describing. So.. (if you said fox lies, then you are correct, however i did see a program on what i just described.) I must now question where the hell you really are standing right now. I'm sure you are in Iraq. Does that mean you can describe in detail what exactly America is doing, or has done in your country, and for what reasons ?

You're not the first country America has ran into and fucked with behind everyones back. And if you can't believe that, then there are plenty of factual resources in your local Library.

So i can tell you are feeling like i bashed your country, thus you have stated that Oregon sucks. Well guess what. OREGON DOES SUCK ! WOO FUCKING HOO. We both can agree on that.


Oh and P.S

Do you know how America came to be in the islands of Hawaii ? NO ??? Well why don't you go ask a native from there, they will tell you all sorts of GREAT things about America.

[Cheeto]

Accusing Fox News of being deceptive! *shock* How AWFUL! What next? Say that perhaps the US economy is a bit low right now? That gas prices have gone up slightly? Perhaps that our administration has used deceptive and questionably ethical procedures over it's term? Such horribly unfounded accusations you CUR!

Oh, and btw, Oregon rocks. If you don't like it GTFO and leave our majestic beauty for those of us who appreciate it.

[TylerDurden]

Accusing Fox News of being deceptive! *shock* How AWFUL! What next? Say that perhaps the US economy is a bit low right now? That gas prices have gone up slightly? Perhaps that our administration has used deceptive and questionably ethical procedures over it's term? Such horribly unfounded accusations you CUR!

Oh, and btw, Oregon rocks. If you don't like it GTFO and leave our majestic beauty for those of us who appreciate it.


Why don't you nut up and just say "Fuck you" instead of forcefully implanting wittiness into my sight.

i can sense how hard the dude from iraq is writing right now. I bet he will leave a long post after mine. I can almost hear the tick tack taps of a keyboard, being pushed oh so hard, yet oh so fast. Check it out, im a dumb american pig, and im stupid, and i suck, and a bunch of other stuff. oh and i dont know shit.

[Cheeto]

Why don't you nut up and just say "Fuck you" instead of forcefully implanting wittiness into my sight.

i can sense how hard the dude from iraq is writing right now. I bet he will leave a long post after mine. I can almost hear the tick tack taps of a keyboard, being pushed oh so hard, yet oh so fast. Check it out, im a dumb american pig, and im stupid, and i suck, and a bunch of other stuff. oh and i dont know shit.
Pretty much says it all right there.

I love it when trolls make my point for me. Means I get to take a vacation earlier.
/me sips his pina colada

[Invig]

Do you know how America came to be in the islands of Hawaii ? NO ??? Well why don't you go ask a native from there, they will tell you all sorts of GREAT things about America.


Actually I do, and Im sure most American kids that have made it into high school do too. Its really not some big secret


I thought everyone can agree Fox news is the biggest form of bullshit in the media today.

All your arguments start with "you don't know" what makes you so great. Your profile says you are a janitor. When I want to advise on how to scrub a toilet bowl Ill come to you. When it comes to politics I'm inclined to say no.

[TylerDurden]

Why don't you nut up and just say "Fuck you" instead of forcefully implanting wittiness into my sight.

i can sense how hard the dude from iraq is writing right now. I bet he will leave a long post after mine. I can almost hear the tick tack taps of a keyboard, being pushed oh so hard, yet oh so fast. Check it out, im a dumb american pig, and im stupid, and i suck, and a bunch of other stuff. oh and i dont know shit.
Pretty much says it all right there.

I love it when trolls make my point for me. Means I get to take a vacation earlier.
/me sips his pina colada

tisk tisk tisk, troll ? try again. I'll let you know when you sound like an adult.

And your point being ? .... by the way.

What IS your point ? That you can half ass read, and pretty much not contribute to any sort of post about political stuff ? How your ego and lack of understanding is all you can muster ?

[Cheeto]

tisk tisk tisk, troll ? try again. I'll let you know when you sound like an adult.

And your point being ? .... by the way.

What IS your point ? That you can half ass read, and pretty much not contribute to any sort of post about political stuff ? How your ego and lack of understanding is all you can muster ?
This from the guy who's on more ban lists than Darwin's "Evolution". This from the guy who has thrown out more troofer arguments than digg.com. This from the guy who would rather everyone just tell him to "nut up and say fuck off" (which, btw is the sign of a lost argument). You really haven't presented any decent arguments at all, nor have you even presented your arguments in anything other than a semi-coherent, poorly structured post that reeks of something you could grow crops in. Going off of what you seem to think is maturity, I think I'd rather you not consider me an adult, thanks. I wanna be a Toys R Us kid.

[TylerDurden]

Do you know how America came to be in the islands of Hawaii ? NO ??? Well why don't you go ask a native from there, they will tell you all sorts of GREAT things about America.


Actually I do, and Im sure most American kids that have made it into high school do too. Its really not some big secret


I thought everyone can agree Fox news is the biggest form of bullshit in the media today.

All your arguments start with "you don't know" what makes you so great. Your profile says you are a janitor. When I want to advise on how to scrub a toilet bowl Ill come to you. When it comes to politics I'm inclined to say no.

HOW DID THEY THEN ? HUH ? Tell me, how did they come to Hawaii.

And really, my arguments start with that ? wow.

My PROFILE says iam a janitor. Which is taken from the movie half baked.

"excuse me, janitor" "custodian, DICK"

great movie.

And as for you agreeing with me about fox news ... well .... im sure you can guess what i'll say to that.

[Invig]

So penguin was right you ARE a pot head.

[TylerDurden]

tisk tisk tisk, troll ? try again. I'll let you know when you sound like an adult.

And your point being ? .... by the way.

What IS your point ? That you can half ass read, and pretty much not contribute to any sort of post about political stuff ? How your ego and lack of understanding is all you can muster ?
This from the guy who's on more ban lists than Darwin's "Evolution". This from the guy who has thrown out more troofer arguments than digg.com. This from the guy who would rather everyone just tell him to "nut up and say fuck off" (which, btw is the sign of a lost argument). You really haven't presented any decent arguments at all, nor have you even presented your arguments in anything other than a semi-coherent, poorly structured post that reeks of something you could grow crops in. Going off of what you seem to think is maturity, I think I'd rather you not consider me an adult, thanks. I wanna be a Toys R Us kid.


you can't disprove anything i write, all i can sense from you is you believe in god, the bible, and what the government tells you. Other then that, from what you just wrote, pretty much describes YOU.

If you wanna be a toys r us kid, then go hang out at the coffee house and drink lattes on your power book and adjust your glasses for the chick sitting on the couch over there.

You have done GREAT at taking the topic and turning it into your puddle of shit. If anyone here is doing the forum bad, its you, for flaming, and not thinking out YOUR posts. All you can do is talk shit, but cant come up with ANYTHING, at all that makes you sound like you can prove to me that you know what you are talking about. You can say all the shit you want, but i know, that you CAN'T have a political conversation without crying like a bitch, because your ego, and from what it maybe sounds like, your religion,, doesn't allow you to process in your mind.

i was banned from the dod forums for a week once. I rest my case, no one here can bring me down, because anything you guys can say about me, is a load of shit, and you're flamers. Im done with this thread, you have totally shit out a real couple of winners, and you can go on pretending to make fun of, or talk down on me, because i wont see it. Good day.

MOVING ON ....

[Rob]

"TylerDurden", lay off the character emulation bullshit. Until you can learn to separate opinion and supposition from fact, just fucking give it up.

[Bismarck]

Haha, nobody will ever accuse ME of ruining debate again after this thread!

[Cheeto]

Haha, nobody will ever accuse ME of ruining debate again after this thread!
Is that a challenge? I accept sir! /gauntlet bitch slap

[Invig]

i totally forgot about you until you sent me this message.

Also, you don't live in Iraq, good day.

ps.
And even if you do, i wouldn't care because i CAN say things just to be saying it. CAN you ?

OH SNAP

Yes. Yes I can. What's your point?

you can PM me all day and decrease my rep, it doesn't really bother me.


Back on topic. My unit's last deployment was Afghanistan. One of the problems there was people didnt even know there is a United States. They thought we were Russians coming back. From what I gather one of the biggest problems our troops face is the Pakistan border because they are having difficulty stopping the insurgents from coming across.

[Invig]

Oh yeah and the Afghans seem to be pretty proactive in rebuilding

[Cheeto]

I invoke mighty bash.org quote #4281. I'm going to become rich after I invent a device that lets you stab people in the face over the Internet.

Hey Invig, when you were in Afghanistan, just how far did their ignorance of the outside world extend? If they hadn't heard of the US wouldn't that mean that a lot of what they thought they knew was 200 years old? Was it just apathy or isolation?

[Ginger Lord]

Jesus H Christ Tyler.

I was gonna rant on about how Tylers spat had derailed the topic about Afghanistan into an Iraq thread but no...it sorted itself out. But now its happened again....

:picard:

[Cheeto]

We're bringing RN back into the current events forum.

Or something.

Much as I enjoy yelling at people and ridiculing them with words they can't even spell, I think it might be time for this thread to die.

[Ginger Lord]

Indeed, the next bit of flaming each other gets the topic a shiny padlock. Flaming has no purpose here, if you don't like each other, take it somewhere where us that want to discuss things dont have to wade throuh.

>:(

[Invig]

Hey Invig, when you were in Afghanistan, just how far did their ignorance of the outside world extend? If they hadn't heard of the US wouldn't that mean that a lot of what they thought they knew was 200 years old? Was it just apathy or isolation?

I got to the 82nd May 29th and got sent to Iraq June 6th, so this is my first deployment. However all my NCOs went to Afghanistan and never stop talking about it. From what I gather the Afghanis were isolated and most wernt educated. However they have remarkable resolve. My squad leader told me that he had to guard a check point during the elections over there and people were lined up everywhere. When insurgents started a firefight at the voter's box at the check point the locals refused to leave before they got to vote. Which I interpret that what ever people say whether it was a joke of an election or not the Afghanis didn't think so and personally I think thats what matters. Theres a lot more stories like that and some personal videos around here that Ill try to get later on next week.

think about it this way. We pretty much took a developing country and turned it into a 3rd world country here in Iraq. As much as it sucks for everyone shouldn't we try and fix that? I've spent a lot more days handing energy drinks and honey buns to Iraqi kids then searching houses and getting in firefights. Only time will tell. One of the countless classes they made us go to said statistically an insurgency takes 12 years to beat. By the 6th year you should know if you will ever win or not. Its been 5, and violence is at an all time low. Like 12-20 attacks a week as opposed to 150+ attacks a week less then a year ago. Violence is going down so fast we keep having to change our rules of engagement which is a good thing.

[TylerDurden]

from developing, into 3rd world is bad right ? How did America do that? What do you mean by that ?

[Cheeto]

from developing, into 3rd world is bad right ? How did America do that? What do you mean by that ?
America is a first world country, third world means a shithole with little to modern technology or amenities. Think of Africa, that's mostly third world. As for how, all the bombing and disruption of services over in Iraq brought on by the coalition is what's done it. Blow up a lot of America and cut it's entire power grid out and you'd see similar events as in Iraq.

[TylerDurden]

when i think of America bombing Iraq, i don't imagine the WHOLE country. I think of military, or camps. I don't think of whole developing cities going down.

[Cheeto]

Well that's accurate, most of the actual buildings are intact, but power stations, water stations, gas supplies, etc are all blown to shit or horribly mismanaged. So effectively, they are without power most of the time in some of the most highly populated areas.

[TylerDurden]

so pretty much they are in a 3rd world state so nothing can be used against them. Until when ? Until Tali-ban is all gone right ?

Is it true that America trained Iraq dudes to fight against Russia ?

[Cheeto]

so pretty much they are in a 3rd world state so nothing can be used against them. Until when ? Until Tali-ban is all gone right ?

Is it true that America trained Iraq dudes to fight against Russia ?Wait...what? Nothing can be used against them? What does the Taliban have to do with Iraq? I have no idea what you're talking about. And no, the US didn't train Iraqis to fight against Russians.

[TylerDurden]

i meant power, gas etc. Used against American troops ? Not having thoes things makes it harder to run a HQ right ?

Tali ban is an afgan thing only huh ?

then i don't get it. I thought tali-ban was all up in Iraq, and thats why iraq was bombed so much then ?


was it the people of Afghanistan that America helped out, to fight the Russians ?

[Mr. Burns]

i meant power, gas etc. Used against American troops ? Not having thoes things makes it harder to run a HQ right ?

Tali ban is an afgan thing only huh ?

then i don't get it. I thought tali-ban was all up in Iraq, and thats why iraq was bombed so much then ?
Taliban, insurgents, and Al Qaida are all different things. Sometimes they overlap, but often they're completely different.

[TylerDurden]

The reeducation of Tyler Durden.

[Cheeto]

You need to go do A LOT of reading if you wanna get caught up.

[Bismarck]

Yeah man, there's... a lot of factions and events going on here that you need to know about. The Taliban is not in Iraq, Iraq is dealing with several groups, including Sunni and Shi'ite militias, and foreign insurgents under the banner of Al Qaeda. Lots of these groups are being funded by Saudi Arabia and Iran to fight a proxy war over who gets to run Iraq.

[TylerDurden]

so they'll keep sending their people into Iraq until they either kill all the Americans (yeah right) or run out of people to send ? outrageous. The Main advantage of having Iraq in pocket does what for the saudis ? The ability to force children into fighting ? Creating culture ?

"statistically an insurgency takes 12 years to beat. By the 6th year you should know if you will ever win or not. Its been 5"

thats crazy to think about ! Well i guess that means all the bad guys blew them selfs up too early into the game ?

[Burris]

There is absolutely zero proof and zero reason for the Saudi government to fund organisations that would potentially try to overthrow it.

[Rob]

And incidentally, "Al Qaeda in Iraq" isn't actually a branch of Usama bin Ladin's worldwide Al Qaeda organisation. They're an independent group, though they have the moral blessing of bin Ladin & co.

[Burris]

To annotate what I said, certain members of the Saud family might be funding Iraqi terrorists, but remember that there were European royal households who had Communists and revolutionary sympathisers.

[Bismarck]

There is absolutely zero proof and zero reason for the Saudi government to fund organisations that would potentially try to overthrow it.

Zero reason? The country sits on the border with Iraq while Iran, the other major power in the region is funneling money and guns to try and create a theocratic Shi'ite state there?

They'd be kinda stupid not to get involved.

[Bismarck]

And incidentally, "Al Qaeda in Iraq" isn't actually a branch of Usama bin Ladin's worldwide Al Qaeda organisation. They're an independent group, though they have the moral blessing of bin Ladin & co.

Yeah, I know. It's like McDonald's - it's a god-damn franchise. ;)

[Cheeto]

"Welcome to Baghdad may I take your head, sir?"

"Would you like fries with your death?"

[Cole]

was it the people of Afghanistan that America helped out, to fight the Russians ?

We Trained, Funded, Supported, and Armed the Mujahedeen, Including Usama Bin Laden, To fight the Russians, Bin Laden was regarded as a HERO back then one of our biggest assets in the war against the Soviets, Not long after this, Saddam Invaded Kuwait, Usama offered 10,000 of his Mujahedeen fighters to Saudi Arabia to get Saddam out of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia instead chose to Ally with the United States and Have a foreign power enter the Holy Land of Islam to deal with an internal problem... This rubbed Usama the wrong way, After this event, Usama became not only our Enemy but the enemy of Saudi Arabia, This is When the Usama we know today was born.

Saudi Arabia regardless of what ANYONE tells you is not our ally, They are our enemy...

The only reason we aren't actively attacking them is because we are seeking control of that region for the financial gains of elite assholes, And we already control Saudi Arabia through proxy, we don't need to invade, However those countries who won't comply with the wests demands will be invaded, this has been proven.

Iran is next on the list regardless of rather it has nukes or not, they don't want to play the game.

[AFG]

Iran is next on the list regardless of rather it has nukes or not, they don't want to play the game.

I'd like to see how the fuck would we be able to pull that off, with the size of our current active Armed Forces. :maxey:


... On second, no because I'd probably be finished with college and working on my Army term
:ninja:

[Burris]

There is absolutely zero proof and zero reason for the Saudi government to fund organisations that would potentially try to overthrow it.

Zero reason? The country sits on the border with Iraq while Iran, the other major power in the region is funneling money and guns to try and create a theocratic Shi'ite state there?

They'd be kinda stupid not to get involved.

Rhetoric. Do you have evidence? I could understand a prince or something but the Saudi Government is NOT funding rebels.