Campus rape: myth?

[Rob]

Found this (http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html) c/o Fark last night. It's quite long, but an interesting read nonetheless I thought. Excerpt:


If the one-in-four statistic is correct—it is sometimes modified to “one-in-five to one-in-four”—campus rape represents a crime wave of unprecedented proportions. No crime, much less one as serious as rape, has a victimization rate remotely approaching 20 or 25 percent, even over many years. The 2006 violent crime rate in Detroit, one of the most violent cities in America, was 2,400 murders, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults per 100,000 inhabitants—a rate of 2.4 percent. The one-in-four statistic would mean that every year, millions of young women graduate who have suffered the most terrifying assault, short of murder, that a woman can experience. Such a crime wave would require nothing less than a state of emergency—Take Back the Night rallies and 24-hour hotlines would hardly be adequate to counter this tsunami of sexual violence. Admissions policies letting in tens of thousands of vicious criminals would require a complete revision, perhaps banning boys entirely. The nation’s nearly 10 million female undergrads would need to take the most stringent safety precautions. Certainly, they would have to alter their sexual behavior radically to avoid falling prey to the rape epidemic.

None of this crisis response occurs, of course—because the crisis doesn’t exist. During the 1980s, feminist researchers committed to the rape-culture theory had discovered that asking women directly if they had been raped yielded disappointing results—very few women said that they had been. So Ms. commissioned University of Arizona public health professor Mary Koss to develop a different way of measuring the prevalence of rape. Rather than asking female students about rape per se, Koss asked them if they had experienced actions that she then classified as rape. Koss’s method produced the 25 percent rate, which Ms. then published.
The Campus Rape Myth (http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html) ?

[Cheeto]

Not to dismiss rape (I've dated more than a couple of girls who'd been through it), but those statistics can be easily skewed simply by changing your definition of rape. Is it a violation of the body, nevermind whether there is any physical penetration? Is it sex with someone who's drunk (whether or not you are, as well) and consents in her inebriated state but later wishes she hadn't? Same with drug influenced girls. Is it even just a false claim to get back at a boyfriend that is never taken off the statistics book? Is it even just statutory rape, a 17 year old who has a 19 year old boyfriend (there are a significant number of both at universities and colleges)? Further, does this include rape cases outside the norm, such as a male victim or a female attacker?

This is the problem with cases like these. A real problem gets so exaggerated to whip up a frenzy about what a danger we're all in that any measures that are taken are so hopelessly misdirected that the original problem remains unsolved and now everyone has to deal with new, stupid, useless rules lest they be labeled as uncaring about it. Statisticians are almost as evil as lawyers and politicians, IMO.

[Ginger Lord]

Skim read it and agreed. "Rape" is such a loose term (not as loose as some of the college women...) when applied to College/University sexual activities.

Should be rebranded

"Sexual act which occured to the 'victim' being too drunk to remember their actions which has resulted in guilt and desire for some sort of justifcation and result"

[ReutherMonkey]

My University had every student take a study a few years ago to "determine" how many students on campus had been sexually assaulted. Among the questions used to "determine" this was "Have you been asked to participate in sexual acts that you did not want to participate in?" Of course, this is an almost universal "yes". I've told people to go fuck themselves - certainly something that people didn't want to do. This would easily fit under the category of "sexual assault" as defined by my (and hundreds of other) University.

Only 1 time, the first question, did the 25 or so question survey refer directly to "rape" - aka a *forced* sexual act against the victim's wishes. The subsequent questions effectively related any reference *ever* to sex - as a form of sexual assault.

My current GF was *actually* raped at her University, and these bullshit statistics do people like her an actual disservice (at the least).

[Bismarck]

Rape is always such an incredibly touchy subject. There's so many cases where a girl was raped and she gets put through the ringer and then never gets justice, and there's cases where nobody wants to consider the guy may be innocent because they're all too aware of the former problem... Such a clusterfuck.

Had a girlfriend once whose sexual assault case was a total catastrophe, truly it's a heartbreaking thing for anyone you love to go through. It's really not surprising when you hear about girls who never report they were raped.

[Ginger Lord]

Off-topic but college related:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7290088.stm


One in four teenage girls in the United States has a sexually-transmitted disease, a study has indicated.

The study, by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), found an even higher prevalence of STDs among black girls.

It found that nearly half of the African-American girls surveyed had at least one STD, while the rate was 20% among white and Mexican-American teenagers.

[Penguin]

PSA: Only smell dicks with those stupid nose filters from Ultraviolet.

[ReutherMonkey]

Off-topic but college related:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7290088.stm


One in four teenage girls in the United States has a sexually-transmitted disease, a study has indicated.

The study, by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), found an even higher prevalence of STDs among black girls.

It found that nearly half of the African-American girls surveyed had at least one STD, while the rate was 20% among white and Mexican-American teenagers.
One in four? I've beat the odds!

[HS the Whap]

Off-topic but college related:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7290088.stm


One in four teenage girls in the United States has a sexually-transmitted disease, a study has indicated.

The study, by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), found an even higher prevalence of STDs among black girls.

It found that nearly half of the African-American girls surveyed had at least one STD, while the rate was 20% among white and Mexican-American teenagers.
One in four? I've beat the odds!
I didn't. I had the clap for a while. Shit ain't cool.

Funny, I've had sex with 4 girls.... damn maths is accurate.

[blackguy32]

I didn't. I had the clap for a while. Shit ain't cool.

Funny, I've had sex with 4 girls.... damn maths is accurate.

Whap needs to wrap!

[2ltben]

There's one very good reason you should never inherently trust statistics without doing further research: they're almost always approximations. Since things like this are Binomially distributed (ie, they're discrete events that have only two outcomes: happening and not happening), dividing the number of times an event happens by the number of opportunities, such as Number of Women Students Raped divided by Number of Women Students, gives you an estimated value of the probability.

To give you an example, say the uncertainty of the p-estimate is defined by p*(1-p)/n, where p is the estimated probability and n is the sample size. In order to get accuracy to the percent, you need an uncertainty of less than 0.5%, so, solving for n, one would need to not only randomly sample over 150 students, but do so in a manner that controls geographic location, promiscuity, income level, sexual history, and all manner of variables. Every time some lurking variable has an influence, the bias of the probability estimate moves farther away from the true value and the uncertainty grows larger.

So yeah, its not hard to see why their definition is just ridiculous.

[Cheeto]

*snip of a lot of complicated math variable and statistician shit*

So yeah, its not hard to see why their definition is just ridiculous.
Do you even HAVE a life or do you just go home and do hard maths? Fuck man, I like to think I'm clever but even I wouldn't expend that amount of time and brain power for this place. :-P

[PrivateParts]

This reminds me of that family guy episode where brian is pepper sprayed by that girl who just got out of a college rape seminar.

Wish i could find the clip online, but its removed where ever i look.

[Rob]

Heh, I know the one you mean.

It was that same episode with the "I won't rape you", "I might" scene IIRC

[PrivateParts]

Uploaded the clip to youtub
UFTxlVu1ICE

[PrivateParts]

blah those cunts deleted it already.

[deceiver]

Campus rape may be a myth, but BRO RAPE isn't.

3zvTRQr7ns8

[2ltben]

Do you even HAVE a life or do you just go home and do hard maths?
Well, I tend to call it homework.

And I think pretty much everyone should have a basic understanding of calculus and statistics. It makes life so much easier.

[Rob]

Do you even HAVE a life or do you just go home and do hard maths?
Well, I tend to call it homework.

And I think pretty much everyone should have a basic understanding of calculus and statistics. It makes life so much easier.
Burn in hell.


/wuv

[TylerDurden]

what is the clap, and do i have it ?

[TylerDurden]

Campus rape may be a myth, but BRO RAPE isn't.

3zvTRQr7ns8


This is fucking so damn fuck shit fuck funny ! OH MY SHIT ! I .... ok this is .. THIS IS FUNNY.

"did you pour axe all over this dildo"

dude, c`mon now ... i fucking .. WOW ! ...

i'm drunk, i just pounded a 6 pack of PRB 16OZers do my dome, and i must say, i shouldn't post anymore tonight. But i will leave you all with this ...

That youtube vid was good .. damn good. Funny good. I .. i can't stop typing. YEs i can.

[Zao]

Every girl I've dated or been with sexually since high school has been raped. A couple of them more than once and one several times. I happen to think that it's a lot more prevalent than one in four given that of these seven women, none of them reported any of these incidents. I've discussed this with a few close guy friends, all in their mid to late twenties and they have experienced nearly the same thing to varying degrees. If you're a woman and you make it your entire lifetime without getting raped, you are extremely lucky.

All I can say is if I ever stumble on one in progress, I sincerely hope my murdering the rapist doesn't add too much to the victim's trauma. Also, if anyone here has raped a woman, please know that I think you are a piece of shit and have no qualms mentioning that.


what is the clap, and do i have it ?

It's not fun is what it is. You'll know.

[Cheeto]

I wish there was some sort of standard rule for 'rape.' Because it seems there's so much vagueness around that one point that it's hard to tell who got drunk at a frat party and got fucked silly by equally drunk frat boys (c'mon, you had to fucking know that was going to happen) or who was physically restrained and forced to endure a frighteningly sober and very cogniscant attack.

Also, we need to fix the counseling afterwards. My girlfriend got attacked by a guy, afterwards her doctor and parents did all they could to try and suppress her desires for sex, making it feel as much an unnatural sin as they could.

We will be having words over this, oh yes we will. And these words will not be pleasant, nor will they be quiet.

[2ltben]

I wish there was some sort of standard rule for 'rape.' Because it seems there's so much vagueness around that one point that it's hard to tell who got drunk at a frat party and got fucked silly by equally drunk frat boys (c'mon, you had to fucking know that was going to happen) or who was physically restrained and forced to endure a frighteningly sober and very cogniscant attack.
My friend's neighbor got arrested, prosecuted, and sentenced because some teenage bitch made up some story for attention when all he did was give her a ride home. He's still in jail and is going to have the sex offender label for the rest of his life, even if he's finally let go when the judicial system realizes their massive clusterfuck.

Lesson: If you're going to pick up hitchhikers or give someone a ride, ask for ID.

[Penguin]

Relevant to this thread. (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Almost_raped)


If you're a woman and you make it your entire lifetime without getting raped, you are extremely lucky.
What kind of post apocalyptic shithole do you live in?

[Zao]

Relevant to this thread. (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Almost_raped)


If you're a woman and you make it your entire lifetime without getting raped, you are extremely lucky.
What kind of post apocalyptic shithole do you live in?

The USA?

[Rob]

Relevant to this thread. (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Almost_raped)


If you're a woman and you make it your entire lifetime without getting raped, you are extremely lucky.
What kind of post apocalyptic shithole do you live in?

The USA?
TBH I'd kind of had the same question in mind as Penguin's...

[Zao]

I'll pose it another way. Do you think a woman would be extremely unlucky to make it through her whole life without getting raped? I know I'm not the only one who's dealt with the emotional and psychological damage this does to a woman. Fall in love with a woman or two who've been brutally raped and tell me you feel it's still not a major problem that we haven't found an effective way to address and deal with as random, seemingly unrelated things trigger flashbacks and bouts of depression on the occasional to frequent basis.

I've been dealing with this stuff for about six years straight now and the attitude that some people take saying rape isn't as big a problem as people make out just boggles my mind.

[Mr. Burns]

I'll pose it another way. Do you think a woman would be extremely unlucky to make it through her whole life without getting raped? I know I'm not the only one who's dealt with the emotional and psychological damage this does to a woman. Fall in love with a woman or two who've been brutally raped and tell me you feel it's still not a major problem that we haven't found an effective way to address and deal with as random, seemingly unrelated things trigger flashbacks and bouts of depression on the occasional to frequent basis.

I've been dealing with this stuff for about six years straight now and the attitude that some people take saying rape isn't as big a problem as people make out just boggles my mind.
I don't think people are saying it isn't a big deal - they're reacting to the fact that many people define it very loosely. Loose enough, in fact, that some people are telling girls that getting too drunk to make a good decision and then sleeping with someone is rape. The article isn't taking anything away from people who actually have actually been forced to submit to torture like that, but saying that the big deal being made by people about rape on campuses is not about rape at all.

[Cheeto]

I imagine quite a few of us could be found guilty of some variety of rape if there was a deep enough examination. Drunk girls at a party, a girl a year or two younger, a girl who decides later she wasn't feeling up to it but was coerced because we wanted sex, etc.

Rape is a serious fucking offense, so the conditions to be convicted of it should be equally as serious since the consequences already are. You fuck a drunk girl at a party? Well that sounds about par for the college frat party course, her doing, and you're just a jerk. Fuck a girl who's a year under consent and you're a year over? Well that's normal, anyone who tells you that you knew better and raped her is a fucking douche. You sweet talk someone into sex...er...that sounds like a lot of relationships, actually. None of these should have penalities attached (beyond the clap for fucking drunk girls or getting drunk and turning into a party favor).

[Penguin]

I'll pose it another way. Do you think a woman would be extremely unlucky to make it through her whole life without getting raped?

I think the problem is it's unclear what you mean by "extremely lucky." As in, do the odds dramatically favor a woman being raped at some point in her lifetime, or is it just something you should be grateful for not having gone through?


I know I'm not the only one who's dealt with the emotional and psychological damage this does to a woman. Fall in love with a woman or two who've been brutally raped and tell me you feel it's still not a major problem that we haven't found an effective way to address and deal with as random, seemingly unrelated things trigger flashbacks and bouts of depression on the occasional to frequent basis.

I've been dealing with this stuff for about six years straight now and the attitude that some people take saying rape isn't as big a problem as people make out just boggles my mind.

There's two sides to every coin. False accusations (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=493352&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490) are a serious problem, too. They make things harder for legitimate victims (who wants to be held up to that scrutiny after such a traumatic event?) and they can really, REALLY fuck over the life of the accused, what with the felony conviction and sex offender registry.

Plus, we as a society have decided that if you try to teach women how to take preventative measures, you're somehow pre-emptively blaming the victim or suggesting that women who "wear slutty clothing and/or go out at night" deserve to be raped. No, but there are certain situations and settings that it's advisable to avoid.

If any overhauls need to be made, they're cultural ones.

[Rob]

I'll pose it another way. Do you think a woman would be extremely unlucky to make it through her whole life without getting raped?

I think the problem is it's unclear what you mean by "extremely lucky." As in, do the odds dramatically favor a woman being raped at some point in her lifetime, or is it just something you should be grateful for not having gone through?
I think this is more the point that was attempting to be made. In my experience, the world is not (as Penguin so aptly put it) some post-apocalyptic shithole where all women will endure rape at some point in their life.

Should women who haven't endured it be grateful that they haven't had to? Unquestionably. Is the incidence of rape so startlingly high it's simply a fact of life that women everywhere will have to endure it at some point? I don't think so.

[Zao]

Ok, then we're all on the same page. My initial post was badly worded. I do see rape as being a bit higher insidence than estimated, however. But this has nothing to do with college life per-se. Most of my lover's rapes occured outside of college. Before or after. The ones that occurred during involved, yes, drugs and alcohol. And then we're into that whole conundrum. When you've been flirting with and teasing a guy all night long whom you've no intention of screwing and get yourself into a state where you lose conscious control and/or wake up during the act he thought you'd been leading him to all night long, then we're obviously in a bit of a grey area and everyone involved has a healthy share of the blame to accept.