Olympic Torch protests

[Rob]

Anyone else watching this right now? 37 people arrested the other day during protests in London, now the torch is in Paris. Supposedly more than 3000 police (incl. motorcycle, rollerblade/foot, and riot cops) out to protect ~85 runners.

As of now the torch has been extinguished twice and the runners retreated to the bus under police protection. No word if they're going to re-light it yet...

[SimonS]

I hate protesters in anyway shape or form. Parasites.

[Cole]

I hate protesters in anyway shape or form. Parasites.

Yes god forbid anyone should stand up for something they believe in and speak out, we should just all sit at home and be lazy, complacent, compliant, sheep...

[Cheeto]

I hope China is paying attention, but I doubt it.

[Penguin]

I don't think it's to send a message to China so much as the people in charge of selecting the location of the Olympic games.

[Stellar]

they should just use a bunson burner instead of a torch. I burned a pencil with a bunson burner once. My teacher kicked me out of class. He said I was stupid.

LITTLE DID HE KNOW THAT I ENDED UP WITH A C- IN HIS CLASSS!! who's stupid now FUCKFACE

[HS the Whap]

If I was one of those runners I'd just start beating people with the torch.

[Dman]

So... what are they being dicks for?

[Ginger Lord]

So... what are they being dicks for?

:picard:

[WHEATLEY007]

I'm off to China in August and will be in Beijing for the Olympics. Its my honeymoon and we've wanted to go there for a long time. We had no plans on going to the Olympics and it wasn’t planned to coincide with it being there. I'm torn between seeing what is a once in a life time event, as they'll put on a good planned show, ( unlike us Brits 4 years later cos we cant even organise the opening of an airport terminal ) and it'll be hard not to get into the 'mood' of the event while there, but I'm also under the belief that its good to make a stand not going, albeit mine would be a small gesture.

The Chinese authorities recently opened up full access for its people to the BBC website, including access to the Tibet and Olympic stories. Some Chinese have posted their views (well I guess its not the authorities 'dodgy' posting) and they seem to feel that their side isn't shown, that the Tibetans really are waging a terrorist/guerrilla campaign against them, and that their government does look out for their best interests & that if they should need to use force in Tibet, then its justified.

I'm looking forward to going, but knowing my love of arguing politics and religion with people and saying things out loud; I know I'm heading towards causing allot of arguments with people there.

[HS the Whap]

I'm of the opinion that China should not only keep Tibet, but use it as a country size bombing range for their Air Force.

[Burris]

I'm off to China in August and will be in Beijing for the Olympics. Its my honeymoon and we've wanted to go there for a long time. We had no plans on going to the Olympics and it wasn’t planned to coincide with it being there. I'm torn between seeing what is a once in a life time event, as they'll put on a good planned show, ( unlike us Brits 4 years later cos we cant even organise the opening of an airport terminal ) and it'll be hard not to get into the 'mood' of the event while there, but I'm also under the belief that its good to make a stand not going, albeit mine would be a small gesture.

The Chinese authorities recently opened up full access for its people to the BBC website, including access to the Tibet and Olympic stories. Some Chinese have posted their views (well I guess its not the authorities 'dodgy' posting) and they seem to feel that their side isn't shown, that the Tibetans really are waging a terrorist/guerrilla campaign against them, and that their government does look out for their best interests & that if they should need to use force in Tibet, then its justified.

I'm looking forward to going, but knowing my love of arguing politics and religion with people and saying things out loud; I know I'm heading towards causing allot of arguments with people there.

Tibetans? Terrorists? Guerillas?

They want autonomy not seperatism.

China has attempted to undermine Tibetan culture, colonized Tibet, and tried to replace the Dalai Lama... What if say, Poland was to invade Italy, send a bunch of their people there, install a new Polish pope over the elected one? And that was a random choice.. no offense to poles or Italians intended.

[WHEATLEY007]

Tibetans? Terrorists? Guerillas?
They want autonomy not seperatism.

I know that.

Seperatism is never going to happen, not when your a poor as fuck country wedged in between to emerging superpowers who each have one eye on securing resources to feed their growth. Unfortunately, China does not, at the moment, see the possibility of other 'leaders of people' fitting in with their way of rule.
Possibly, they'd have been better with India ruling/governing them, as it does to Bhutan. Unfortunately, that will never happen. After Taiwan, China will never let let another country cause it to loose face at split from them. Never going to happen, not in our lifetimes at least.

[Faceman]

I hate protesters in anyway shape or form. Parasites.

Yes god forbid anyone should stand up for something they believe in and speak out, we should just all sit at home and be lazy, complacent, compliant, sheep...

There is a difference between protesting and being socially disruptive. Apparently these "protesters" believe being disruptive will gain positive attention towards the situation. Honestly I see it the other way. This is not the way to go about it. You're ruining the Olympics, not China.


China has attempted to undermine Tibetan culture, colonized Tibet, and tried to replace the Dalai Lama... What if say, Poland was to invade Italy, send a bunch of their people there, install a new Polish pope over the elected one? And that was a random choice.. no offense to poles or Italians intended.

From my understanding, which can be off on this situation I'll admit, is that Chinese have been getting alot of jobs in Tibet and gaining ground/businesses and are keeping their Chinese culture. The Tibetan culture is in danger in the Tibetans' eyes because of this. And for the Chinese to do this, I believe the mainland has put their politicians in power in some areas of the Tibetan government. Which is then allowing this to happen. This seems to me to be the Chinese are looking to make money and gain favorable opinion among the Tibetans. Which has backfired.

As far as undermining or colonizing Tibet, that may be possible but I wouldn't make that assumption unless I saw what was going on first hand. With the Dalai Lama, maybe the Chinese see him as the reason for the unrest. I honestly do not know what that man does or stands for and I will not pretend I do.

[Cheeto]

As far as undermining or colonizing Tibet, that may be possible but I wouldn't make that assumption unless I saw what was going on first hand. With the Dalai Lama, maybe the Chinese see him as the reason for the unrest. I honestly do not know what that man does or stands for and I will not pretend I do.
Generally he has been of the line that China has been subduing Tibetan culture by singling out and subjugating and persecuting monks, arresting them or confining them to their temples, brining in Chinese business over boosting Tibetan businesses, and at the extreme end, they even outlawed reincarnation without a permit (obviously unenforcable, was meant to prevent anyone from claiming to be the Dalai Lama reincarnated when he died).

In response, he has called on the diplomatic resolution of the situation, by having world governments address China with sanctions, or condemnations, etc, to try and bring a peaceful, non-violent solution to Tibet's governorship. I'm pretty sure he wants full independence again, but he might be willing to accent autonomy. He also has encouraged the Olympic Games to be held in Beijing under the notion that it would bring more scrutiny to China. However one thing he's not at all encouraged and even actively worked against, was any sort of violence by either side, or fabrications of violence.

[Faceman]

How long has Tibet been under Chinese rule? I guess I should search about this.

[Rob]

There is a difference between protesting and being socially disruptive. Apparently these "protesters" believe being disruptive will gain positive attention towards the situation. Honestly I see it the other way. This is not the way to go about it. You're ruining the Olympics, not China.
Isn't that sort of the point of the protests though? Disrupt the Olympics, a Westen endorsement of sorts, prior to their happening in Beijing. Protesters won't affect the PRC gov't (hello Tiananmen Square), but maybe they can prod more influential bodies into doing something.

At least, that's how I understand the protests.

In Paris, apparently they tried a third time and had to put it out again and then just bussed it to the stadium. There they were met by more protesters (some of whom had to be restrained)

It goes to SF next, and I hear people are already readying banners to hang from the Golden Gate

[Cole]

There is a difference between protesting and being socially disruptive. Apparently these "protesters" believe being disruptive will gain positive attention towards the situation. Honestly I see it the other way. This is not the way to go about it. You're ruining the Olympics, not China.


Protest comes in many forms Speech, Violence, And non violent peaceful disobedience, which generally ends in violence in some from from the opposing party, The type of protest one partakes depends on what one is protesting, If you see something wrong with something, its ones duty to oppose it and do whats one is capable of doing within there means to change it, If ones protesting the violent oppression of a country and its people, Then putting out a torch and giving any country who is essentially ignoring that oppression in light of an event, and giving them hard time by ruining there little ceremony, is the perfect tool to get attention.

I'm really sure these protesters feel really bad and won't get much sleep tonight because they put out everyones little flame...

Because after all that little flame and its ceremony is so much more important then the violent oppression and occupation of a country...

[WHEATLEY007]

Because after all that little flame and its ceremony is so much more important then the violent oppression and occupation of a country...

I read that the flame 'idea' originated from the Berlin games, of 1936, lauded by Hitler for bringing 'peace and unity to nations through sport'. The rest is history.

[Rob]

That's just the relay segment of it, the flame (besides its antecedents in the ancient Greek games) started in Holland 8 years before that.

[Rob]

So, so far...

Olympia
- protesters disrupt Beijing Olympic chief's speech at the torch lighting ceremony
- "Free Tibet" banners unfurled at the handover of the torch from Greek to PRC Olympic officials
- 10 arrested

London
- several attempts to snatch the torch
- 37 people arrested

Paris
- protesters vs 3000 cops put the torch out 3x and cancelled the relay
- mayor Delanoe cancelled the torch ceremony
- Green party members hung a Tibetan flag and a black banner with the Rings as handcuffs from the city hall
- black banners & Tibetan flags hung from other major landmarks incl. the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame

San Francisco (tomorrow)
- 7 arrested for attempting to hang pro-Tibet banners from the Golden Gate Bridge
- China has already requested that the relay route be shortened

[WHEATLEY007]

Very difficult situation of the Chinese. They cant be seen to be affected by the protesters, but every moment thta the torch is on its routes, is more chances for the protests to continue .

I'll bet that the Olympic powers are alot more choosy with who they give the games to in the future.

[Cheeto]

Wow, when Paris wants to protest and riot, they fucking know what they're doing.

[WHEATLEY007]

^^ They get lots of practice these days http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4405620.stm

[Cheeto]

China's response to all the protests:

China's Foreign Ministry blamed the disruptions on groups seeking to split the far western region of Tibet from the rest of China.
"We express our strong condemnation to the deliberate disruption of the Olympic torch relay by Tibetan separatist forces regardless of the Olympic spirit and the law of Britain and France," spokeswoman Jiang Yu said in a statement posted on the ministry Web site.
"Their despicable activities tarnish the lofty Olympic spirit and challenge all the people loving the Olympic Games around the world," she said in the statement.
So you blame white people rioting on Tibetans, consider hanging flags saying 'free tibet' as despicable, and believe that the Olympics will shield you from anger?

I like you less, China. You and all your cheaply made shit.

[AFG]

I'm going to go check out the Torch run 2m, since it's here in SF. I'll take pictures of any protesters that try and bum rush the torch :D

[Faceman]

There is a difference between protesting and being socially disruptive. Apparently these "protesters" believe being disruptive will gain positive attention towards the situation. Honestly I see it the other way. This is not the way to go about it. You're ruining the Olympics, not China.


Protest comes in many forms Speech, Violence, And non violent peaceful disobedience, which generally ends in violence in some from from the opposing party, The type of protest one partakes depends on what one is protesting, If you see something wrong with something, its ones duty to oppose it and do whats one is capable of doing within there means to change it, If ones protesting the violent oppression of a country and its people, Then putting out a torch and giving any country who is essentially ignoring that oppression in light of an event, and giving them hard time by ruining there little ceremony, is the perfect tool to get attention.

I'm really sure these protesters feel really bad and won't get much sleep tonight because they put out everyones little flame...

Because after all that little flame and its ceremony is so much more important then the violent oppression and occupation of a country...

Protest the country, don't ruin the event for everyone. The event is for everyone of the world, China is just hosting. Doing this is tarnishing the Olympics. Do you really believe people are going to care more about Tibet by this? I think it's doing the opposite.





Because after all that little flame and its ceremony is so much more important then the violent oppression and occupation of a country...

I read that the flame 'idea' originated from the Berlin games, of 1936, lauded by Hitler for bringing 'peace and unity to nations through sport'. The rest is history.

Hey! I didn't say that.


Wow, when Paris wants to protest and riot, they fucking know what they're doing.

Muslims.



China's response to all the protests:

China's Foreign Ministry blamed the disruptions on groups seeking to split the far western region of Tibet from the rest of China.
"We express our strong condemnation to the deliberate disruption of the Olympic torch relay by Tibetan separatist forces regardless of the Olympic spirit and the law of Britain and France," spokeswoman Jiang Yu said in a statement posted on the ministry Web site.
"Their despicable activities tarnish the lofty Olympic spirit and challenge all the people loving the Olympic Games around the world," she said in the statement.
So you blame white people rioting on Tibetans, consider hanging flags saying 'free tibet' as despicable, and believe that the Olympics will shield you from anger?

I like you less, China. You and all your cheaply made shit.

Know what's funny? I basically said the same thing their foreign minister said. He's right.

[straybullet]

There are ways to protest without being disruptive. Attacking the torch bearer won't get to the heart of the matter, just leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

@AFG - where exactly is the torch being run? And what's Newsom doing about it?

[WHEATLEY007]

Because after all that little flame and its ceremony is so much more important then the violent oppression and occupation of a country...Hey! I did'nt say that

No, Cole wrote that



Wow, when Paris wants to protest and riot, they fucking know what they're doing.

Muslims.
What does their religion matter? It wasn't just muslims in Paris rioting, though they where the majority. It was mostly about poverty & being treated as a second class.


Whatever you all feel, the french upped their game on their protest compared to us Brits, so you guys from San Fransico will have to do better than that.

[AFG]

There are ways to protest without being disruptive. Attacking the torch bearer won't get to the heart of the matter, just leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

@AFG - where exactly is the torch being run? And what's Newsom doing about it?

It's going to start at McCovey Cove and then go to embarcadero, then end somewhere. It might be cut short. There was a picture of the route up on sfgate.com, but I can't find it anymore.

And I'm not sure what Newsom has to say about the protesters, but Pelosi said something to the effect of protest proudly, but peacefully.

[AFG]

found it
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/ar ... 7VU1VT.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/04/02/BA97VU1VT.DTL)

[The Scatman]

they should just use a bunson burner instead of a torch. I burned a pencil with a bunson burner once. My teacher kicked me out of class. He said I was stupid.

LITTLE DID HE KNOW THAT I ENDED UP WITH A C- IN HIS CLASSS!! who's stupid now FUCKFACE

I almost killed me class by putting a condom on a gas tap (gas + static from baloon pop = BOOM HEAD SHOT)
Same thing happened... except I got a C+... NOW WHO'S STUPID?!?! YOU GINGER BEARDED CHUCK NORRIS WANNABE!

Sorry :(

[Cheeto]

Whatever you all feel, the french upped their game on their protest compared to us Brits, so you guys from San Fransico will have to do better than that.
I think they're going to get the Gay Agenda out there to gimp rape the torch bearer and any Chinese-ish person in a 10 mile radius.

[WHEATLEY007]

Whatever you all feel, the french upped their game on their protest compared to us Brits, so you guys from San Fransico will have to do better than that.
I think they're going to get the Gay Agenda out there to gimp rape the torch bearer and any Chinese-ish person in a 10 mile radius.

Theres alot of Chinese in that area - you'll be fucking knackered after that .
Remember, its only Gay if you smile and push back

[Cole]

Protest the country, don't ruin the event for everyone. The event is for everyone of the world, China is just hosting. Doing this is tarnishing the Olympics. Do you really believe people are going to care more about Tibet by this? I think it's doing the opposite.

Thats like a known child molester holding a playtime for all the little children on his block,
and then only bitching about him simply being a child molester, But continuing to allow all of the children to go play there...

After all ya know we cant ruin there playtime now can we...


China is disgusting, these games being held there are a slap in the face to everyone..

[WHEATLEY007]

Protest the country, don't ruin the event for everyone. The event is for everyone of the world, China is just hosting. Doing this is tarnishing the Olympics. Do you really believe people are going to care more about Tibet by this? I think it's doing the opposite.

Thats like a known child molester holding a playtime for all the little children on his block......


Or Bush bringing democracy to your country. What I mean is, its odd to scream and point the finger at a country/someone, but not when your not so squeaky clean yourself.

Nither Britain, USA or France have great Human rights records themselves. China is, however, far worse than us.

[D.O.A]

Protest the country, don't ruin the event for everyone. The event is for everyone of the world, China is just hosting. Doing this is tarnishing the Olympics. Do you really believe people are going to care more about Tibet by this? I think it's doing the opposite.

Thats like a known child molester holding a playtime for all the little children on his block,
and then only bitching about him simply being a child molester, But continuing to allow all of the children to go play there...

After all ya know we cant ruin there playtime now can we...


China is disgusting, these games being held there are a slap in the face to everyone..
While I do agree with you, I think at this point, that it's too late to do anything. I mean, why is it NOW that the protests are happening? It really isn't going to help, and you are only going to deny the athletes the opportunity to compete in a sport they've been training and dedicating their entire lives for. A contest for the greatest athletes.

We'll play the games, and leave. Just like we did in Germany.

[Cheeto]

Protest the country, don't ruin the event for everyone. The event is for everyone of the world, China is just hosting. Doing this is tarnishing the Olympics. Do you really believe people are going to care more about Tibet by this? I think it's doing the opposite.

Thats like a known child molester holding a playtime for all the little children on his block......


Or Bush bringing democracy to your country. What I mean is, its odd to scream and point the finger at a country/someone, but not when your not so squeaky clean yourself.

Nither Britain, USA or France have great Human rights records themselves. China is, however, far worse than us.
I *hate* the argument that 'Oh you can't protest human rights violations! Look at your own!' Okay bucko, for one: the protests are against the Chinese government, not the people. Erego, we are not the US, British, or French government protesting, we are the people. Our governments sometimes get out of our control and do things we do not agree with. I'm sure a lot of the Chinese people don't agree with what their government is doing to Tibet, and I'm positive a helluva lot of them despise the way they treat dissenters and journalists. I do not agree with what the US, Britain, et. all have been doing in Iraq, especially the US. I protest that as well. So I'm perfectly qualified and allowed to say 'fuck you' to the Chinese government over THEIR human rights violations as well.

Secondly, no one is saying 'oh move the games to the US/Britain instead!' And if they did, I'd expect as much protest over that as with China, and I'd probably protest that, as well. Neither the US nor China is deserving of the games. There's quite a few other countries that I feel would be better suited for hosting it. But before you start looking for a perfect country, you won't find one. Every country has blackspots, some are just far far bigger and blacker than others.

[AFG]

Well, today was an epic fail.

I was going to the wharf after work at 3:00pm, then found out location got moved, someone told me to head to the GG bridge so I did. Then turns out it wasn't there, then someone told me to go to Market St. and I was like F*** it, I'll just watch it on TV.

You win today Mr. Newsom.

[Rob]

So they took what's supposed to be a grand, pomp and circumstance public ceremony...and moved it away from people, whether they were out to support or oppose.

:picard:

"This is for you, but you can't see it because you'll cause trouble" ?


Confusion strikes US torch relay

The only North American leg of the Olympic torch relay has been marked by confusion after the route was diverted to avoid crowds of protesters.

Thousands of pro-Tibet and pro-Beijing demonstrators had gathered in San Francisco, prompting fears of violence.

Officials sent the torch on a new route citing safety concerns. The closing ceremony was also moved to a new site.

There were disruptive protests as the relay passed through Europe. It will end in Beijing, home of the 2008 Games.

Meanwhile, President George W Bush has urged China to "begin a dialogue" with Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.

The US House of Representatives has overwhelmingly passed a motion condemning China's "extreme" response to protests in Tibet.

Muted event

In San Francisco, a planned waterfront closing ceremony in Justin Herman Plaza was moved because of security fears.

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom told Reuters news agency: "We assessed the situation and felt that we could not secure the torch and protect the protesters and supporters to the degree that we wished."

Instead, a muted closing event took place on a motorway fly-over well away from the planned location, says the BBC's David Willis in San Francisco.

Thousands of spectators had been waiting hours to see the torch pass, but many are likely to have been disappointed after the change of route.

Immediately after the torch was lit, the torchbearers went into a warehouse building on the waterfront.


The torch was then driven to a new starting point about a mile away, where it was handed to two runners away from protesters. They set off surrounded by heavy security.

Pro- and anti-Beijing demonstrators have been mingling on the streets all day, prompting some concerns of violence. Television pictures showed China supporters shoving a Tibet activist.

At least one protester was detained before the relay started.

Hundreds of anti-Beijing protesters rallied in the city on Tuesday, after activists hung banners from the city's famed Golden Gate Bridge on Monday.

Tibet is not the only issue prompting the protests - China's policies towards Sudan, Burma and members of the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement are also being opposed.

Officials in Beijing have condemned the disruption that has accompanied the torch so far - but promised that the procession would continue.

Bush call

However, correspondents say more trouble could force officials from the International Olympic Committee - set to meet in Beijing on Thursday - to consider calling off the rest of the torch's 136,788 km (85,000-mile) journey.

President Bush urged China to open talks with the Dalai Lama, who he called a "peaceful man... who is not for independence, but for the cultural identity of the Tibetans being maintained".

Meanwhile, the president's spokeswoman struck a more hesitant note than she has in the past when asked whether the president would attend the opening ceremonies of the Games.

Dana Perino said it was "extremely premature" to confirm what the president's schedule would be in August.

A spokeswoman for UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he would not be attending the opening ceremonies - but had never intended to. He will be at the closing ceremony.

'Looting and arson'

In Washington, meanwhile, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a resolution criticising China's "disproportionate and extreme" response to protests in Tibet.

By 413 votes to one, the House called on China to release Tibetans imprisoned after peacefully demonstrating, and allow international monitors and journalists unfettered access to Tibetan areas of China.

But in a statement before the vote, a spokeswoman for China's foreign ministry accused the resolution's supporters of choosing "to remain silent on the violence involved in beating, smashing up properties, looting and arson in Lhasa - and the Dalai clique who premeditated and organised the criminal act of violence".

The Olympic flame was lit in Greece on 24 March and is being relayed through 20 countries before being carried into the opening ceremony in Beijing on 8 August.

In Paris, the torch had to be extinguished three times, while in London there were 37 arrests.
Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7339380.stm)



Next stop: Buenos Aires

[PrivateParts]

So i had a large networking group project due this week. Do you know what happens when you try to proof read and correct a report that has been proof read and corrected by someone from turkey for someone from china who proof read and correct for someone from nigeria?

You say fuck it, i'll just make a kick ass power point presentation.


True story.




China needs to stop worrying about losing face. We all already think they suck.

[Cheeto]

I'm continually amazed how obstinate and short sighted China is being.

The point, China. U duznt haz it.

[WHEATLEY007]

AUSTRALIAN Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said today Chinese security agents will be banned from the Australian leg of the Olympic torch relay.

The men in blue tracksuits were specially selected by Beijing, but caused concern in London and Paris, with Lord Coe the top official for the 2012 London Olympics calling them "thugs".

Trust Australia to be the ones to make a good & obvious decision.


..... no one is saying 'oh move the games to the US/Britain instead!' .......

Not to Britain, we're sure to let the Government's ego, lack of financial restraint and accountability make a right ol' over-budget hash-job of it.
- No thanks......... wait, actualy, we've got it for the next instalment. God help us.

[Shade-of-Grey]

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/20/20534_large.jpg

[Penguin]

You know, the thing I really love about political cartoonists is that their incredibly inflated sense of self-worth.

[Cheeto]

What if I buy all my shit only from the best sweatshops in Taiwan and Mexico?