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Thread: Network help?

  1. #1
    Ad minimum Reputation: 210 DarkPenfold's Avatar
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    Default Network help?

    I've been having issues with my internet connection type when using the XBox 360 and PS3 - specifically relating to NAT type; most of the time my 360 is reporting I have an Open NAT, whilst my PS3 claims it's Type 3, or Strict.

    I've been reading up on the issue and it looks like my ADSL modem is to blame - it's a SmartAX MT882 as supplied by my ISP (TalkTalk, who are awful) which also has some entirely pointless Router functionality built in. It's currently running in PPPoE mode, and is connected via RJ45 cable to my wireless router, a Belkin Wireless G Plus MIMO. It looks like the two are in conflict with one another as they're both running DHCP, meaning I can't specify static IPs for the games consoles that'll allow me to forward ports correctly.

    What I think I need to do is:
    1. Switch MT882 to Bridge mode
    2. Put Belkin router into PPPoE mode
    3. Supply Belkin router with TalkTalk dial-up username and password

    I think this will resolve the issues I'm having, but I'm not entirely sure - and with 4 other people in my house all needing to use the same network, the timeframe I have to try this out and fix any problems is very short.

    Has anyone here come across a similar problem before, or are there any network gurus out there who can see a fault with my logic?


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Network help?

    Looks good, your steps outlined will give your public IP to your Belkin so there won't be two NAT devices between your consoles.

    It should be seamless to the other people in your house, assuming everyone is behind that Belkin.

    Technically you could have set your Belkin to a static IP(with a IP on the modem's lan network segment) and built port-forward rules on your Belkin pointed to your console, and then the same on the modem pointing to the static IP you gave your Belkin.
    Last edited by Guy Montag; Feb 17th, 2010 at 08:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Mine is an evil laugh! Reputation: 533 jow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Network help?

    DP, you need to open specific ports for both the xbox 360 and the PS3. Each one requires different ports to be open for the ideal NAT settings, though in my experience a PS3 Nat of "2" doesn't cause any serious issues. I can't look up any settings right now, because the sites with the info will be blocked at work, but when I get home if I remember, I'll look up my router settings and shoot you the ports.

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    Ad minimum Reputation: 210 DarkPenfold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Network help?

    Cheers both.

    Jow - one of the problems is that I can't properly forward the ports at the moment, because my 360 and PS3 refuse to stick to a static IP. I'm assuming this is down to the fact that DHCP/NAT is being run by both the router and the modem, which is putting an unnecessarily complicated extra step into the networking process.

    I've tried setting up static IPs and forwarding ports via the router many, many times with no success - that's led me to believe that it's something in the modem config that's causing problems. I figure by turning my modem into a bridge - and effectively disabling all its routing features in the process - the Belkin settings will actually work properly...


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    Default Re: Network help?

    First, your consoles DHCP broadcasts wouldn't have gone past the NAT of your Belkin, so it wasn't talking to your modem. Second, setting your console to a static IP should have no bearing to whether there is 1 or a dozen DHCP servers on your network.

    What do you mean the static IP won't 'stick'?

    Either way setting the modem as a bridge is certainly going to make port forwarding easier, but I'm not sure it will make your IP less...slippery?
    Last edited by Guy Montag; Feb 18th, 2010 at 11:03 PM.

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    Ad minimum Reputation: 210 DarkPenfold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Network help?

    Whenever I try specifying an IP for either console via their own network setup options, they never seem to show up as that on the router's client list - e.g. I tell the PS3 to claim 192.168.2.30 but it will always show up on the client list as the lowest available IP instead. That means I can't guarantee which IP a console will be on when I turn it on, making port forwarding impossible (as the router needs a restart when they're added, which resets the client list...).

    Of course, it's likely that I'm just misunderstanding the process...!
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    Dishonorably Discharged Reputation: 1795 Maxey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Network help?

    So I guess the consoles don't support UPnP?

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    Default Re: Network help?

    They're supposed to - and both modem and router gave UPNP turned on - which again makes me think there's a setting conflict somewhere.
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    Default Re: Network help?

    Well, if by client list you mean a DHCP client list in your Belkin somewhere, you shouldn't see it there at all if you are setting a static IP. If you are trying to test that the console is actually using that IP, a ping should suffice.

    I know the 360 supports UPnP, he may not need any port forwarding at all once he bridges his modem and is only behind one NAT device instead of two. PS3 probably does too, but, you know.

  10. #10
    Mine is an evil laugh! Reputation: 533 jow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Network help?

    In my experience UPnP doesn't solve your problems in this arena (though it's meant to). I had the same issue setting up static IPs. What you're going to need to do (and it's a huge pain in the ass) is to go into your respective consoles' settings menus, and manually set your IP. If you set it to automatic, it will always select the lowest possible IP in a given range, and thus render any port triggering you do useless (IP xx.xxx.xx.98 is triggered but my Xbox randomly got assigned .101).

    It's tricky to learn, but if I'm remembering correctly (it's been some time since I've done this).. but here's some steps:

    1) Leave your machine on automatic IP, look at the settings it's assigned you. Copy down the gateway and all of that crazy juju that you don't know what it means into notepad or on a scrap bit of paper.

    2) Set your machine to manual IP. Enter all the information as listed, EXCEPT your IP. Your IP should look similar to the one which auto-detected, but set the last digits (the ones which change) to something below 100. I forget where I read this, but there's some kind of reason for this. Set it to like .95 or something.

    3) Go into your router control panel, and open up all of the specific ports you have to open for the specific IP you set.

    4) ...?

    5) Profit!

    I am by no means an expert or a serious tech, I've gone through this before and am trying to recall what took me days and hours upon hours of reading, asking and trial and error to resolve.

    Some more things I remember but not.. exactly, which may be pertinent:

    1) I was told that while Port Forwarding will work, you want to use Port Triggering. I.. don't know the difference, or why this is the case.

    2) You may not have enough slots on your router's control panel to open up alllll the ports you need opened for both the 360 and the PS3. I don't know how to get more slots in there :\ (I think this is why my PS3 is set to NAT 2, because I left 1 or 2 ports closed. Works fine, though.)

    3) I haven't had the chance to go into my router yet (I'm at a public computer at work), in case I keep forgetting, the info is pretty easy to come by. Make sure you check multiple sources! Not every website has all of the ports listed correctly. Many leave out a few, and whether you're mean to open UPN or.. whatever the other one is, is relevant. When in doubt, open the extra port. If you're worried, google the port, and make sure it's not some crazy security risk.

    Edit: you may have already tried to make your console IPs static the way I've described, I don't mean to condescend. I remember my problem being frustration with not being able to get the IP static, and not knowing how to do it. I thought it would have been a setting in my router, but figured out how to do it through the console settings menu. If you tried this and for some reason you're still having issues, DO NOT call Microsoft or Sony. Their help desks are fucking useless. Call your router's manufacturer. Linksys Support was the reason I was able to resolve my own issues regarding this, in like a 20 minute call, as opposed to 2 hours of getting nowhere on the phone with Microsoft.
    Last edited by jow; Feb 19th, 2010 at 06:02 PM.

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