Green Zone: High-end hub of Baghdad?

[Rob]

Excerpt:

US-backed plan sees shiny future for Green Zone in Iraq
By BRADLEY BROOKS and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA Associated Press Writers
BAGHDAD May 4, 2008 (AP)

Forget the rocket attacks, concrete blast walls and lack of a sewer system. Now try to imagine luxury hotels, a shopping center and even condos in the heart of Baghdad.

That's all part of a five-year development "dream list" — or what some dub an improbable fantasy — to transform the U.S.-protected Green Zone from a walled fortress into a centerpiece for Baghdad's future.

But the $5 billion plan has the backing of the Pentagon and apparently the interest of some deep pockets in the world of international hotels and development, the lead military liaison for the project told The Associated Press.

For Washington, the driving motivation is to create a "zone of influence" around the new $700 million U.S. Embassy to serve as a kind of high-end buffer for the compound, whose total price tag will reach about $1 billion after all the workers and offices are relocated over the next year.

"When you have $1 billion hanging out there and 1,000 employees lying around, you kind of want to know who your neighbors are. You want to influence what happens in your neighborhood over time," said Navy Capt. Thomas Karnowski, who led the team that created the development plan.

Karnowski said a deal already has been completed for Marriott International Inc. to build a hotel in the Green Zone. He also said a possible $1 billion investment could come from MBI International, a conglomerate that focuses on hotels and resorts and is led by Saudi Sheikh Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber.

(Full story)

That's kind of interesting. On one hand, it makes me want to ...isn't a capitalistic, decadent lifestyle exactly why the world's poor loathe the West? Isn't this a completely counterintuitive and counterproductive means to the (presumed) end of putting a stop to violence against Western and Western-affiliated targets?

I can't help but be impressed by the out-of-the-box thinking on it though. For over 5 years now the approach has been more guns! more soldiers! with varying degrees of both stunning success and epic failure that seems to have produced a zero sum. An outline like this though, approaches the problem from a socioeconomic viewpoint--improve the quality of life, decrease the potential for violence.

I thought it was interesting, anyway.

[Cheeto]

If the US plan to make Iraq Disney World and open it to the public, they will hate us. If the US plan to make it a playground for the elite Iraqi and Arabs, they will REALLY hate us. If the US plan to use this as the rallying point for a program to make the lives of every Iraqi better than they were 5 or 10 years ago, they might not hate us.

Going off track record, I think option 3 is not bloody likely.

[HS the Wasp]

I think someone saw Dubai, said "LOOK MUSLIMS LIKE TO BE CRAZY LIKE US!" then assumed all Muslims wanted to live in an Oil fueled crazy future city.

[Burris]

OH NO RICH PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE IN EXCLUSIVE HOMES!

[Penguin]

That's kind of interesting. On one hand, it makes me want to ...isn't a capitalistic, decadent lifestyle exactly why the world's poor loathe the West?

I don't think so. I think they loathe not having access to such a lifestyle.

I can't help but be impressed by the out-of-the-box thinking on it though. For over 5 years now the approach has been more guns! more soldiers! with varying degrees of both stunning success and epic failure that seems to have produced a zero sum.

That's a pretty hefty oversimplification of the US' COIN doctrine.

[Rob]

I can't help but be impressed by the out-of-the-box thinking on it though. For over 5 years now the approach has been more guns! more soldiers! with varying degrees of both stunning success and epic failure that seems to have produced a zero sum.

That's a pretty hefty oversimplification of the US' COIN doctrine.

Yes it is, intentionally so. We've had (and still have) plenty of discussions on the varying degrees of success of the mission in Iraq, I didn't feel the need to have another here. Thusly, oversimplify, gloss over, and try to keep the focus on the subject posted, is what I was going for.

That's kind of interesting. On one hand, it makes me want to ...isn't a capitalistic, decadent lifestyle exactly why the world's poor loathe the West?

I don't think so. I think they loathe not having access to such a lifestyle.

This, on the other hand, is something I tend to see as oversimplification. They don't like not having access to a first-world lifestyle? I don't believe that jealousy and "if I can't have it neither can you" attitudes don't prompt people to blow themselves up in cafes and fly commercial aircraft into office towers.


But this is all skirting the issue posted. What do you think of a revitalised Green Zone? Path to stable Baghdad, or setting of future enclave for the wealthy only?

[Penguin]

This, on the other hand, is something I tend to see as oversimplification. They don't like not having access to a first-world lifestyle? I don't believe that jealousy and "if I can't have it neither can you" attitudes don't prompt people to blow themselves up in cafes and fly commercial aircraft into office towers.

I mean it in a different sense than the right-wingers' DHEY'RE JELLUS OF ARR FREEDUMS, heheh. There a more sensible ways of dealing with it than that... What I'm getting at is that I don't think the majority of Middle Eastern people would object to living in first world conditions, and would generally prefer air conditioning, running, potable water and cheap, readily available food to the alternative.

But this is all skirting the issue posted. What do you think of a revitalised Green Zone? Path to stable Baghdad, or setting of future enclave for the wealthy only?

I think that as long as Iraq has violence, there will always be enclaves for the wealthy only. There already are: Friendly ones get the Green Zone, others, like Moqtada Al-Sadr, get their nice homes in cities under heavy guard from fanatical loyalists.

I don't see anything terrible about this, really: Domestically, it's like what your local city council might call "revitalizing the business district." However, since they're talking about infrastructure too (power, sewer), I think it's important that they push that outside the green zone. They can start with the green zone, but they should expand from there as fast as possible to keep resentment to a minimum, and also to bring some improvement to Baghdad in general.

[Cheeto]

As I recall, most of Baghdad and the major Iraqi cities actually HAVE (or had) infrastructure for plumbing, A/C, electricity, etc. It's just been turned off because of rationing power or water. So really, unless they turn all that back on full bore with no limits for the rest of the city, just about anything is going to build resentment.

[Bismarck]

You have to crawl before you can walk.

[PoolShark]

You have to crawl before you can walk.

A billion dollars for a Baghdad Starbucks and Gap sound alot like running before walking if you ask me.

Don't the locals already call the $700,000,000 embassy "George W.'s Palace"?